Conversational Theology

If God knew that we would sin, why did he create the world?

If God knew that we would sin, why did he create the world?Our tendency in answering this question is to look at it from a man-centred perspective: what’s in it for us? Wouldn’t it have been better for us never to have sinned?

But the answer that the bible gives challenges us by taking a God-centred perspective. And it makes us step back and ask an even bigger question:

Why did God create the world at all?
God didn’t create the world primarily for our benefit, he did it for his glory. He created a world that would display his glory most fully and most perfectly. That is to say, every aspect of God’s character could be shown in its most extreme form.

If God had created a world in which no one sinned, what aspects of his character could he have shown? His creative power, his loving-kindness, his provision for his people.

But what about his mercy? Or his justice? Or his wrath?

And would we have seen even his creative power to its fullest extent if there had been no death and therefore no resurrection?

Could we have known the greatness of his loving-kindness if he had not shown it to faithless Israel?

Paul explains something of this in Romans 9:22-23
‘What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory…’

God’s wrath expended against unrepentant sinners demonstrates the riches of his glory, just as his mercy shown to the elect demonstrates his glory.

74 Responses to "If God knew that we would sin, why did he create the world?"

Why did God feel the need to prove anything about His character to Himself or to anyone, particularly the likes of His created sub-beings like angels and us? Why could He not have been satisfied to know this about Himself and leave at that? Why the big need to create a world and beings to whom you can show your glory? Was He not satisfied to just know it about Himself? Is He not all-sufficient? If there’s a true answer to this question, then the follow up question is Why, then, does He feel the need to create these very real people to show His glory to and expose these very real people, who He loves (?), to sin and evil and then send these very real people to hell to a very real suffering without hope for all eternity just to prove and display His glory to those who, by His won choosing, will not meet the same fate? Who is He doing this for and why? Isn’t He really just doing all of this for Himself and real, not imaginary, created beings burn in hell and suffer unending misery for all eternity because of it? We’re told that nothing in Him is lacking, but apparently, He was not just pleased just to know this about Himself and be satisfied with that.

WHY? SIN IS BECAUSE OF ADAM AMD EVE SO WHY DO WE HAVE TO PAY FOR WHAT ADAM AND EVE DID WHEN WE DIDN’T EVEN KNEW THEM? THIS IS NOT FAIR. WHY IS THERE A HELL IF A LOT OF US ARE ALREADY LIVING A HELL OF A LIFE. THIS DOES NOT SOUND FAIR, i DO WANT TO BE SAVED BUT IT IS ALL SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND. LIKE ST. THOMAS SAID ” I WILL HAVE TO SEE TO BELIEVE. WHY IS THERE SO MUCH CONFUSION IN THE BIBLE. WE ARE IN A WORLD OF SIN, AND IF WE GIVE OURSELVES TO GOD NOW IT WOULD BE VERY HARD NOT TO SIN BECAUSE BIBLE SAYS SO.THE MORE I STUDY BIBLE THE MORE CONFUSED I GET. AND ALSO BIBLE SAYS GOD FORGIVES ALL SINS EXCEPT BLASPHEMY, SO I THINK MOST OF HUMANITY ARE SINNERS UNTIL WE DIE. THIS DOESN’T MAKE SENSE.

Blasphemy is only blasphemy when you once believed and then denied him. Adam and eve only showed that we would always end up rejecting him, he was angry and so he cursed them. But still he loved us, so he came down in flesh, and gave his life for us, so that we would have a third chance to reunite with him in heaven (second chance he gave us after creating Adam sinless was Noah and his ark, he told people to come into his ark and they would be saved, but non believed him) God loved us, even when we were still sinners. Love you.

Your question can be answered by a simple analogy. If you were to attend a 3 act play, all 3 acts would be important to attend in order to have a full understanding of the purpose of the play. When we come to earth, we are entering the play sometime in Act 2. We don’t remember act 1 and we’ve even missed a lot of Act 2, and have only fragmentary glimpses of what has occurred since the beginning of act 2. Of course it is difficult to see or understand why we’re here, what our purpose is and what our destiny is after this life. But there are answers. From the beginning God has revealed certain truths through the Holy Ghost and through ministering angels. He has called prophets to teach the truth to others to know how to direct their lives and fulfill our purposes in this life.

Here are certain truths. We existed before this life as literal spirit children of God. He was our Father and he loved us. Our families here on earth are a pattern of Heavenly things, which tells us we have Heavenly parents. We lived and learned and progressed there with Him, but we needed certain experiences and we need a chance to obtain a physcial body in order to be like our Heavenly parents. Gender is an essential characteristic of our premortal, mortal and postmortal existence. He put a plan into motion to bring this to pass, to help us continue in our progression to become more like Him. If you don’t believe me, ponder the scriptures (Jeremiah 1:5, job 38: 4-7). He directed one of His most special spirit sons, Jesus Christ to create this earth (St. John 1:1-10). Once it was created he placed Adam and Eve here. He gave them commandments. He knew that we would necessarily need to be separated from His presence in order to be tested and be able to prove ourselves worthy of the glory that He has. For you cannot enjoy His glory without possessing His characteristics and attributes. Thus, this is an opportunity to learn; a time to be proven and progress. He knew we would fall short, and so from the beginning chose a Savior who would provide an atonement in order to satisfy the justice of the celestial laws that govern His kingdom, and yet also be able to provide mercy to those who have fallen short. This Savior is Jesus Christ. He was the literal son of God, because His literal Father was Our Heavenly Father and his mother was Mary. Jesus fulfilled his mission, worked out the atonement and died. He then rose from the dead and appeared to many – His disciples, several women and Paul states that up to 400 brethren at once. He also appeared to other faithful people in other parts of the world to confirm their faith and preach His gospel – the gospel of faith and repentance, of baptism and enduring to the end (refer to the Book of Mormon). His atonement makes it possible for us to repent and become more like Him. I know that these things are true. God has promised those who seek truth, light and understanding that He will answer if they ask; if they knock. He will answer your prayers through the Holy Ghost, whose fruits are described as love, joy, peace, light and understanding.

Before true faith can be exercised in God, you need three things: first, you need to understand the true nature of God and His characteristics. Second, you need to understand your relation to Him and third, you need to know that the life you’re living is in accordance with His will. You will not be able to exercise faith in Him without these things.

The scriptures can help you understand more about the nature and characteristics of our Heavenly Father and our relation to Him. Personal prayer can confirm these truths. But then you will need to conform your life to the light and truth that you receive in order to receive more. Line upon line. It takes effort and desire and work, but it is possible and it is necessary. As you do so, you will find understanding and peace and purpose, and if you continue in this path, you will one day be able to enter the Kingdom of our Heavenly Father and will be met with the greeting, “well done, thou good and faithful servant”.

Your question can be answered by a simple analogy. If you were to attend a 3 act play, all 3 acts would be important to attend in order to have a full understanding of the purpose of the play. When we come to earth, we are entering the play sometime in Act 2. We don’t remember act 1 and we’ve even missed a lot of Act 2, and have only fragmentary glimpses of what has occurred since the beginning of act 2. Of course it is difficult to see or understand why we’re here, what our purpose is and what our destiny is after this life. But there are answers. From the beginning God has revealed certain truths through the Holy Ghost and through ministering angels. He has called prophets to teach the truth to others to know how to direct their lives and fulfill our purposes in this life.

Here are certain truths. We existed before this life as literal spirit children of God. He was our Father and he loved us. Our families here on earth are a pattern of Heavenly things, which tells us we have Heavenly parents. We lived and learned and progressed there with Him, but we needed certain experiences and we need a chance to obtain a physcial body in order to be like our Heavenly parents. Gender is an essential characteristic of our premortal, mortal and postmortal existence. He put a plan into motion to bring this to pass, to help us continue in our progression to become more like Him. If you don’t believe me, ponder the scriptures (Jeremiah 1:5, job 38: 4-7). He directed one of His most special spirit sons, Jesus Christ to create this earth (St. John 1:1-10). Once it was created he placed Adam and Eve here. He gave them commandments. He knew that we would necessarily need to be separated from His presence in order to be tested and be able to prove ourselves worthy of the glory that He has. For you cannot enjoy His glory without possessing His characteristics and attributes. Thus, this is an opportunity to learn; a time to be proven and progress. He knew we would fall short, and so from the beginning chose a Savior who would provide an atonement in order to satisfy the justice of the celestial laws that govern His kingdom, and yet also be able to provide mercy to those who have fallen short. This Savior is Jesus Christ. He was the literal son of God, because His literal Father was Our Heavenly Father and his mother was Mary. Jesus fulfilled his mission, worked out the atonement and died. He then rose from the dead and appeared to many – His disciples, several women and Paul states that up to 400 brethren at once. He also appeared to other faithful people in other parts of the world to confirm their faith and preach His gospel – the gospel of faith and repentance, of baptism and enduring to the end (refer to the Book of Mormon). His atonement makes it possible for us to repent and become more like Him. I know that these things are true. God has promised those who seek truth, light and understanding to ask Him; to knock. He will answer your prayers through the Holy Ghost, which fruits are described as love, joy, peace, light and understanding.

Before true faith can be exercised in God, you need three things: first, you need to understand the true nature of God and His characteristics. Second, you need to understand your relation to Him and third, you need to know that the life you’re living is in accordance with His will. You will not be able to exercise faith in Him without these things.

The scriptures can help you understand more about the nature and characteristics of our Heavenly Father and our relation to Him. Personal prayer can confirm these truths. But then you will need to conform your life to the light and truth that you receive in order to receive more. Line upon line. It takes effort and desire and work, but it is possible and it is necessary. As you do so, you will find understanding and peace and purpose, and if you continue in this path, you will one day be able to enter the Kingdom of our Heavenly Father and will be met with the greeting, “well done, thou good and faithful servant”.

PEOPLE ARE TAUGHT

Most people are taught that if they’ll just believe in Jesus, then they’ll be sure to go to heaven. – But the Bible says that there are only 144,000 who are redeemed from the earth. (Revelation 14:3) And there’s a whole lot more than that who truly believe. So it sounds to me like, that when the time comes, there’s going to be a mad dash for the elevator. – Or should I say, the “transporter room.” Note: – A crowd, no man can number, survives the Tribulation. Revelation 7:9,14

RAPTURE

The word “rapture” means to be filled with strong emotion or great joy. However, some have lead others to believe that the word means to be physically “caught up” or taken up into the air away from the earth. They apply the word “rapture” to 1 Thessalonians 4:17 – Also consider the scripture Mark 13:27. These scriptures do describe an event that will actually be the final phase of what the Bible calls the First Resurrection. Revelation 20:6. There’s been a lot of emphasis placed on this event. It is taught that it’s going to take place before the Great Tribulation and to be ready for it. However, the Bible teaches that it will take place “after” the Tribulation. Mark 13:24.27 So, instead of urging people to be ready for a “rapture,” it might be wise first to urge people to be ready for the Great Tribulation. Matthew 24:21.22

THE IDEA OF A “RAPTURE” TAKING PLACE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION WAS TAUGHT FIRST IN THE 1860’S IN THIS COUNTRY BY A SOUTHERN FARMER TURNED PREACHER. HOWEVER THE CHRISTIANS OF THE FIRST CENTURY DID NOT TEACH THIS DOCTRINE. THE GATHERING OF THE CHOSEN ONES WILL TAKE PLACE JUST PRIOR TO GOD’S WRATH. WHICH COMES AT THE “END” OF THE GREAT TRIBULATION. (Mark 13:24.27)

SOME PEOPLE

Some people (myself included) have assumed that since God has always existed, and that since He lives in Heaven, then therefore, Heaven too, must have always existed. But the Bible says that Heaven was created, (in the beginning), indicating a specific time when it came into existence. (Genesis 1:1) – So God had to have set up His throne after heaven was created. Before that time there must have been no need for one. So maybe God had a need. Maybe he had the need to be needed. All humans have that need. And we are all made like him – in his image. (Genesis 1:26.27)

Perhaps we place too much emphasis on this word “Glory”. In human terms it very much is intertwined with our egos. Does God have an ego? Or did he merely create us because he loves to create and loves those things that he creates?

GLORY
Both the Glory of America and the Glory of God are often thought of by many as being one in the same. The Glory of America is a result of global development. As the Glory of God works toward the whole earth. The glory of man works towards those who want to shine in their own glory. “God works His Glory in the good to all those who are called for His purpose.” Romans 8:28
And the children of thy servants shall continue, and their seed shall be established before thee. Psalms 102:28
Come, behold the works of the LORD, what desolations he hath made in the earth. He makes wars to cease unto the end of the earth: he breaks the bow, and cuts the spear in sunder: he burns the chariot in the fire. Be still, and know that I am Jehovah: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth. Psalm 46:8-10
You know, I am very fortunate in getting to enjoy a comfortable lifestyle and having all the things that I need to have. And most everything I need or want is readily available. But there are times when it seems like I get to have more than I really need to have. I’m not really sure how I feel about that. Although I’m very grateful for what I do get to have, sometimes I’m not really sure that there should be a need to have half of what I do have. And because of my getting to have all these things that I do have, a lot of times, somebody somewhere had to give up continuing their lives in order for me to be able to have these things. It was either someone’s husband, wife, child, or parent. To tell you the truth, sometimes all of this tends to make me feel a little uneasy for having so many things. Especially when there are those in the world that don’t even get to have the very things that they need to have. And not only that, but I probably wouldn’t have to have some of the things that I do have to have, if living in this system that man has devised for himself did not require it. Hmm…. Sometimes it almost seems like someone is manufacturing needs for me to have to meet by me having to have things. And, by the way, can anyone tell me how much energy is burned up in getting a rocket ship into outer space?

Great questions, Bob. I’m not sure I have an answer, or at least not a full and satisfactory one. Here are some general reflections around the subject that maybe clarify how we should think about these kinds of things.

First: why was God not satisfied merely to know things about himself?
(i) There are things that are appropriate for God that are not appropriate for us who are not God. If the very essence of sin is the attempt to become ‘like God’ it follows that we cannot judge God by human standards. God can do those things that for us would be evidence of pride or self-righteousness etc. by virtue of the fact that he is God. So we need to be careful not to think about this issue from too much of a human perspective.

(ii) There’s something about the very nature of ‘glory’ that requires public display, I think. This isn’t ‘showing off’ or ‘boasting’ but simply a necessary outworking of God’s character. I don’t think it’s a question of ‘proving himself’ to us or to the angels so much as a question of being who he is.

(iii) There are aspects of God’s character that are eternally seen in the intra-trinitarian relationships – his love and holiness, for example. But there are other aspects that aren’t. How would God be creator and redeemer had he not created/redeemed? How could he show his mercy or wrath?

(iv) How does this relate to God’s all-sufficiency? Tricky. God doesn’t change by virtue of his relationship to changing things. And yet his character is demonstrated differently as things change (see creation/redemption above). I think the technical answer to this has to do with mind-hurting issues of God’s eternal timelessness and immutability and I’m not sure I remember enough to explain that properly.

Second, who is he doing this for?
(i) Yes, quite right. Ultimately God is acting for his own benefit and his own glory. He’s God and that’s an appropriate thing for him to do.
(ii) And yes, potter and clay is an important biblical model to hold onto.
(iii) But with that we need to also assert as strongly as the bible does the reality of human responsibility. No one suffers in hell who does not deserve to on the basis of their own actions.

I don’t think that asking these kind of questions is an indication of ungenuine faith at all. But I do think that when we can’t find satisfactory answers we need to make sure that we can say something like, ‘I don’t know how all this fits together, Lord, but I know you and I know that you are good and just and loving and I trust this to you.’ That doesn’t mean stopping thinking and reading and asking, it just means doing those things in an attitude of faith. And if in doubt, going back to the bible and knowing that we can hold on to the truth there and leave the speculation for a while.

Hope that helps a bit.

Awesome response :)

Hey, I am also a Christian, however I struggle with questions like the example above. So, if God loves everyone of us and does not want any of us to go to hell, but live with him eternally, then why did God create the people who condemn themselves to hell? As God is all knowing, and thus, he knows whether you are going to hell or heaven before he creates you (even though you make the desicion your self), so why does he allow his children to live in the eternal flames of hell? As it seems he is the one condemning his own children, because he allows the people who he knows are going to choose to go to hell to make that desicion?

THE CAREFUL ONE

It’s understandable that a person wants to reject what’s being taught at times. It’s good to be careful not to believe everything we hear. For Satan, the (god) of this world, has led men in general to take the scriptures and structure a certain standard and belief system to go by. For example, some teach that if you are good, you go to heaven, and if you’re bad, you go to hell. Sounds pretty cut and dry. Some even teach that God predestinates everyone before they are born and where they’ll wind up. But really, would a loving and merciful God create someone knowing that in the end he was going to get to watch them roast forever. I don’t think so. But I wouldn’t put it pass Satan to want to watch people burn forever. Note: Jehovah God has predetermined that there will be those joined with the heavenly arrangement and that the (number) will be 144,000, but he has not yet specified all the individuals. But let us examine the scriptures and see for ourselves what they really have to say. (Acts 17:11) Our effort and attempt should be to try to take these same scriptures and show for ourselves and others if and when they are being taught in error. For example instead of going to heaven or hell, the scriptures actually show that there will be some of us who will never die, but after the Wrath of God, will still be alive when the earth around us becomes new again. And then the vast majority who have died will be brought back to life here on earth. Everyone will grow to be stronger and more healthy instead of growing weak and dying. The earth will become a paradise the way it was meant to be before Satan interfered with the original purpose that God had in mind for humans. Considering the following: The righteous shall never be removed: but the wicked shall not inhabit the earth. Proverbs 10:30 For the upright shall dwell in the land, and the perfect shall remain in it. But the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it. Proverbs 2:21.22 For every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted shall be rooted up. Matthew 15:13 The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein forever. Psalms 37:29 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that patiently serve in God’s Truth will inherit the earth. In just a little while the wicked shall not be. You may even search for them and will not be able to find them. For the meek shall inherit the earth and delight themselves in the abundance of peace. Psalms 37:9-11 Note: The movie “Left Behind” leaves a message in direct opposition to these scriptures. The movie teaches that (the good people) will be removed from the earth and that (the bad) will be left on the earth. But the scriptures teach that (the bad people) will be (removed) from the earth and that there will (always) be good people on the earth. Isaiah 45:18 – For the LORD God alone said that he has created the heavens; and formed the earth, not in vain, but to be inhabited. Psalms 104:5 – And formed the foundation of the earth, that it should not be removed forever. Job 33:29 – And God has worked these things out for man. Job 33:30 -To bring some back from the pit, and be enlightened again with the light of the living. Acts 24:15 – And have hope toward God, which they themselves allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust. Psalms 37:29 – The righteous shall inherit the land and dwell therein forever. Isaiah 33:24 – And the inhabitant shall not say, I am sick: The people that dwell therein shall be forgiven their iniquity. Psalms 145:20 – The LORD preserves all them that love him: but all the wicked he will destroy. Isaiah 40:31 – But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint. Job 33:25 – His flesh shall return to the days of his youth. Isaiah 35:5 – Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped. Isaiah 35:6 – Then shall the lame man be able to walk, and the tongue of the dumb shall sing. And in the wilderness the waters shall stream forth into the desert. Hosea 2:18 – And in that day I will have a covenant with the beasts of the field, and the fowls of the air, and the things creeping on the ground. I shall remove the bow and sword and battle out of the earth. And then they will be able to lie down safely. Isaiah 11:9 -They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain. For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea. Ezekiel 34:28 – And they shall no more be a prey to the heathen, neither shall the beast of the field devour them; but they shall dwell safely, and none shall make them afraid. Isaiah 25:8 – He will swallow up death in victory; and the LORD God will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the reproach of his people shall he take away off from all the earth: for the LORD GOD JEHOVAH has spoken it. Ecclesiastes 3:11 – He has made everything beautiful in his time: Also he has set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God makes from the beginning to the end. Psalms 72:19 – And blessed be his glorious Name forever: And let the whole earth be filled with his glory; Amen, and Amen.

Willy, I think your answer exactly illustrates the problem of trying to answer this question from a human-centred perspective. He does know all those things and he does allow all of those things. My answer above tries to show what the bible says about this from a God-centred perspective and is the best that I can do by way of explaining why. Try reading Romans 9 slowly and carefully – I think it’s the clearest answer to this question in the bible. And make sure you’re asking the question with the right attitude – remembering that God is God and we are not.

A SHORT WORK

Taking in the knowledge that the scriptures have to offer is what leads us to have eternal life. The knowledge is spirit-filled. (John 5:39) (John 6:63) (Proverbs 4:22)

This type of communicating and sharing of effort will help us to survive the “Great Tribulation” that will come down upon us all. It will take a lot of constant prayer and willingness to cooperate. But we can rest assure that before all righteousness vanishes from the earth Jesus will cut the days short. – Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world to try them that dwell upon the earth. (Revelation 3:10) For as a snare shall it come upon all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. (Luke 21:35) For then there shall be great tribulation such that has not been since the beginning of the world to this time, nor shall ever be. (Matthew 24:21) And at that time… there will be a time of trouble such as never was since there was a nation to that time; and at that time thy people will be delivered, everyone that shall still be found written in the book. (Daniel 12:1) And unless those days are cut short no flesh shall be able to stand. But for the sake of the chosen ones the time will be cut short. (Matthew 24:22) For he will finish it and cut it short while righteousness still remains: Because the Lord shall make a short work upon the earth. (Romans 9:28) The righteous shall never be removed: but the wicked shall not inhabit the earth. (Proverbs 10:30) For the upright shall dwell in the land, and the perfect shall remain in it. But the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it. (Proverbs 2:21,22) For every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted shall be rooted up. (Matthew 15:13) The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein forever. (Psalms 37:29) For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that patiently serve in God’s Truth will inherit the earth. In just a little while the wicked shall not be. You may even search for them and will not be able to find them. For the meek shall inherit the earth and delight themselves in the abundance of peace. (Psalms 37:9-11) Note: The movie “Left Behind” leaves a message in direct opposition to these scriptures. The movie teaches that all good people will be removed from the earth and the bad will be left on the earth, but the scriptures say that the bad will be removed from the earth and that there will always be good people on the earth.

BACK IN THE DAYS

Back in the days when man was building the Tower Of Babel, man had the intention of making it to heaven by building all the way to the stars. And to be remembered for this. (Genesis 11:4) The Almighty took note that they all spoke alike and they all had it in their thinking that there wasn’t anything that they couldn’t do. (Genesis 11:6) But the Almighty had a way of making it all cease. (Genesis 11:7) In a similar way today man is reaching for the stars and has it in his thinking that there is nothing he can’t do.
Consider the Following Scriptures: – (Obadiah 1:3.4) – The pride in your heart has deceived you, you that dwell in the clefts of the rock, whose habitation is high. And says in his heart, “Who can bring me down to the ground?” Even though you exalt yourself as the eagle, and you have set your nest among the stars, this is when I will bring you down to the ground, Says Jehovah. Amos 9:2 – Though they dig into hell my hand will take them, though they climb up to heaven my hand will bring them back.

Why is God such a mystery…like he is hidden? I have 3 children and I don’t hide from them. They don’t know me just by seeing my belongings, like my car for example…. hey, we must have a dad because there’s a car in the driveway!! Why can’t God make himself seen and walk and talk with us?…..we would still have free will to choose him or not and we wouldn’t have to go through life wondering if all this is in vain. Every human from the begining of time has been searching for God and we all have one little place in our minds with doubt because he has never been proven other than with faith. I’m a physical being and so are my kids and they can see and touch me and know that I am real. Why couldn’t God make us like the angels, in spirit? They had free wiil and could rebel……yet, they where with God in heaven. Also, when we go to heaven and all pain and crying will stop, aren’t we losing our free will? I sin on earth….I try not to but I do…so anyway, in heaven is God going to take away the temptation to sin? If he does why can’t he do it now, here on earth? I’m a christian but lately I’ve had all these questions popping into my head, I don’t like it…..I get the feelings in me that man made God up and what we can’t answere or understand about God we just say “it’s a mystery or it takes faith. How can we ever understand God when the bible says we cannot know the ways of God or understand them? I talk to God every day all day long and I have so many questions but I feel like I get few answeres. …Well, thanks for your time and God bless………………..matt

^ ^ ^ I feel this exact same way!! ^ ^ ^

OMG. It makes me so sad, but I have been feeling this way too. I grew up Southern Baptist and I use to have so much hope and faith but lately, I have been feeling just like you. I don’t like feeling this way! I am also a gay male and many people I know have turned atheist because they don’t wanna serve God. I don’t wanna be an atheist. That word scares the heck out of me but it would be nice to have some definate answers. Thanks…

I believe it’s ok to ask these questions. I think it causes us to take God more seriously. We have not because we ask not. The Father is not threatened by any of our questions. Keep the faith!

THE RESURRECTION
There are actually two resurrections in the bible. There is a spiritual one and a physical one. The spiritual resurrection is for the elect and will end just prior to the Wrath of God. The ones who are part of the spiritual resurrection will have their personality united with their spirit, but they will have to give up their physical bodies. Then the second resurrection will begin soon (after) the Wrath of God. The ones who are part of this resurrection will have the same personality united with both their body and spirit. This will include the rest of the righteous ones and the unrighteous who God judges worthy. All will take part in renewing the Earth and mankind. Consider: Mark 9:9,10; John 6:39,40,44; John 11:24; Romans 10:9; 1 Corinthians 6:14; 2 Corinthians 4:14; Hebrews 2:14; The wicked will be done away with during the Wrath of God. Note: When Jesus ascended from the earth he was seen in physical form by those witnessing the event. This body, that he materialized much in the same way that the angels materialized on earth at times, was a body that he could change the appearance of at times, and he did. The scriptures say that flesh and blood do not enter in heaven, so undoubtedly he de-materialized the body as he got out sight. The body seen ascending was so that the disciples would know that he had returned to the Father. The body that Jesus had been born with was probably disposed of in the same manner that God had disposed of the body of Moses. Jude 1:9; Deuteronomy 34:5,6; Those born on earth, who go to heaven as the “elect” will be resurrected spiritually. Their bodies will stay behind. 1 Corinthians 15:50 Jesus had a pre-human existence. Those of the earth do not.
THE RENEWAL
These scriptures are mostly taken from the Old King James Version. Other bibles may vary in wording a little but doesn’t do away with the meaning. Jeremiah 10:10 – The LORD (all caps indicating the Father Jehovah), the true living God, as an everlasting king will cause the whole earth to tremble. No nation will be able to escape from His, Wrath. Note: Sometimes, as in construction work, in order to make an add on, it is often necessary to remove some of what is already standing. God made a new heaven by getting rid of the evil that existed there and adding worthy humans to the arrangement. Jehovah God will send His Son Jesus, to deliver the wrath of God upon the wickedness of the earth: Rev Ch 19. And all the kings of the earth will give their honor and glory to the New Jerusalem. Rev 21:2,24 Gal 4:26 Heb 12:22 The “Rapture,” as they call it, will come at the end of the Great Tribulation. Mark 13:24,27 Only the Father knows when. Not even the Son knows. Mark 13:32 – Pray that Jesus comes to cut the Tribulation short. Matt 24:21,22 The “Rapture” is actually the end of what the Bible calls the “First Resurrection.” Rev 7:2-4; 14:1-3; 20:5b,6 The 2nd Resurrection will come after the Wrath of God. Rev 7:9,14,15: 20:12 All others who are worthy of a chance for eternal life will be brought back to life here on earth. Acts 24:15, Rev 20:13, Ps 37:9-11,29 These will not gain eternal life until the end of the Thousand Year Reign of Christ. Rev 20:5a All others will die the second death. Rev 20:14,15 As I was growing up I was taught that all believers will be taken up to heaven and then God would destroy the earth. But at the same time I was taught to support those into office in hopes they would keep this from happening. It seemed as though I was supposed to try to save myself from being saved. God will not destroy the earth, but will destroy the world that man has brought upon the earth. He will take some to heaven to be with Jesus ruling for a Thousand Years over those he keeps on the earth. God will save the earth from being destroyed, by His Son ruling over the kingdoms of the world. Rev 11:15,18 Jehovah God is “cleaning house” from top to bottom. He first cleaned the evil ones out of heaven and made a place for the chosen ones. Rev 12:10,11 — The earth will become “new” again too. Prov 2:21,22, Ps 37:9-11, Rev 22:1,2

A couple of things;

How do you think God should reveal himself to us? We have no way of knowing how comprehensible he is but it safe to assume that being infinite we can never fully see him. One school of thought is that he has and continues to do so (partly) through the beauty of nature as well as the beauty of the human mind.

Another is his revelation of love, as supremely portrayed through the life and death of Christ.

And finally, we know absolutely nothing of ‘heaven’, if there is such a ‘place’ or what awaits us after these mortal bodies are dead. Everything we have conjured up is limited as well as prejudiced by personal view points. This is true in how we have come to se ‘angels’. Clouds and harps, any one?

Faith – it’s like any relationship. It ebbs and flows – it’s part of being ‘human’.

Wow, lots of questions. I have only just picked up this thread Ros – must have missed it so far.

Bob, to add one little picture to Ros’s: Jonathan Edwards comments that it is in the nature of a fountain to overflow, and the overflow doesn’t mean it is lacking or faulty. So it is in the nature of God’s glory to overflow without being lacking or faulty.

Matt,
God has made himself seen and walked and talked with us. If we’d lived in Palestine 2000 years ago, we would have seen him. And yet, amazingly, many of those people who heard Jesus’ teaching, who saw the impeccable character of his life, who experienced his amazing miracles, and who saw his death, still refused to acknowledge his authority over them.

Also, we don’t lose our free will in heaven. Free will is the ability to act according to my desires, NOT the ability to do absolutely anything at all (even God doesn’t have the sort of freedom to act against his own character and nature). Simply that, in the new heavens and the new earth, all my sinful desires will be removed. Why not here and now? It teaches us, trains us, and inspires us to praise God

JESUS WAS PERSECUTED

John 15:20.21 – Keep in mind the word, I said to you, a slave is not greater than his master. If they have persecuted me, they will persecute you also; and if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also. But they do all these things to you for my name’s sake, because they do not know the One who sent me. Jude 1:23 – Save them by snatching them out of the fire. But continue showing mercy to others, doing so with fear, while you hate even the inner garment that has been stained by the flesh. Luke 12:49 – My coming brings a fire to the earth that is already kindled. Matt 10:34-36 – Do not think I came now to put peace upon the earth; I came not to put peace, but a sword. For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a young wife against her mother-in-law. Indeed, a man’s enemies will be persons of his own household. He that has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me; and he that has greater affection for his son or daughter than for me is not worthy of me. II Timothy 3:12 – In fact, all those desiring to live with godly devotion in association with Christ Jesus will also be persecuted. I Peter 4:4 – They will think it strange and speak evil of you for no longer running to the excess with them. II Timothy 4:17 – But the Lord stood near me and infused power into me, that through me the preaching might be fully accomplished and all the nations might hear it, and I was delivered from the lion’s mouth. I John 5:4 – Because everything that has been born from God conquers the world. And this is the conquest that has conquered the world, our faith. II Corinthians 12:10 – Therefore I take pleasure in weaknesses, in insults, in cases of need, in persecutions and difficulties, for Christ. For when I am weak, then I am powerful.

JESUS WAS RAISED
Jesus was raised from the dead and walked again on the earth, appearing to many. This is an example of the dead coming back to life here on earth. Jesus was resurrected spiritually and then materialized a body that he often changed the appearance of. Mk 16:12-14; Luk 24:15,16,30,31; Jn 20:14,19,20; 21:4 He also went on to heaven opening the doorway for the ones whom the Fathers chooses to enter in. Mk 16:19; Luk 24:51 Matt 19:28; 20:23 (Jesus enters heaven in spiritual form – 1 Cor 15:50) — The First resurrection will be those who go to heaven to be shepherds over those who inherit the earth. — There is a “Little Flock” to rule the Kingdom. Luk 12:32 – Those who go in by the door will shepherd the sheep. Jn 10:2 – Jesus is the doorway. Jn 10:9 — Other sheep (The Great Crowd) Rev 7:9,14, are not of the first fold, but do become united with the first, all under the Good Shepherd. Jn 10:14,16.

JUST IMAGINE
Just imagine being able to live forever. And to be able to talk to others openly without any fear of repercussions to ourselves or anyone else. And to be able to always feel better and not feeling worse. And to have the strength and patience to go about things in a way that would be constructive to everyone. And to have the time to learn to play that musical instrument you always wanted to. And to be able to achieve things and not have them slip away. And to be able to always know that what you are hearing is real and true. And to be able to skip along and sing if that be your heart’s desire. And at the same time to always know that you can be helpful to yourself and others. In God’s Kingdom there will be a lot of things realized that can not be realized now, in this world. Satan has us confined inside of his freedom. This is why we need to listen to what Jesus has to say. To break the bands of Satan’s blindness. And to see what God is trying to show us through our own mind’s eye.

How can you follow a God who murdered so many people and allowed the death of his own son? I used to be a Christian but now am not since I read the Bible completely. If for example, a presidental candidate came along who had done horrible, vile things in the past but promised that as long as you believed in and voted for him you would have peace and freedom years from now, but wouldn’t help prevent death, evil, disease right now would you vote for him? I wouldn’t.

God didn’t create sin. Adam and Eve were the first sinners so if you’re angry at anyone, it should be them, and Satan. They did it. Not God.
Like I told my roommate, (like I know anything), in the hardest of times, two things can happen, you either shrink your faith by letting Satan’s attacks weaken you or you keep believing. As soon as you make that choice to keep believing and/or growing in faith in God, Satan will work harder but Jesus will holder you tighter to Him and carry you. Be Encouraged. I hope you’ll come back to Him, He loves you and I, too, love you. Have a good one. :)

but he created adam eve and satan. so in respect he did create sin. He knew they were going to sin before they even knew but created them anyway. I think thats what some ppl question.

Why give up on God? He isn’t a murderer at all,if you were a christian you’d understand, when somebody just terribly rejects Him, He wont force them into loving Him. He lets the devil have his way. God loves us so much He even gave His only Son for us,it sounds a bit stupid but honestly where do you think we’d be if Jesus Christ never died for us?,God was hurt terribly about this situation but He knew what this was for,He made it easier for us all!why not go to a church where the preacher speaks powerful words:) you should know how pathetic the world is,its so much proof that God is real,even this country was based on Him,now their taking Him out,u.s.a. is falling hard now. Also proof that without God,everything falls. Why? because we rejected Him! to this crazy world! the devil only has control over all who hates and follow him. If there’s a devil there’s definatly a God, I also know that I shouldn’t fear the world!whom shall I fear if God is here with me?,dont be afraid God will gladly let you back whenever your ready!nomatter how hard you fall,God needs us:) God doesn’t send us to hell we send ourselves,He can do So much if you let Him….God is real,dont let the enemy fool you!!! I love you all so much I will do what I need to just to let you realize…God is so amazing!….cannot say a thing about God! because you never felt His love shower on you like I…He never made you smile or feel so powerful like He has made me! God is real and awesome!…no atheist can make you feel dumb,nobody in the entire world can do a thing,its us christians job to change the lives of others I will reach out,whoever else is reading this,just stay strong,your beautiful in God’s eyes,He matters!!!beauty is only inside,if you are a powerful christian,yes,thats only beauty inside,you can be so amazing,you cant be God but you can be for God!!

This question is often asked by me a lot lately, as my family is going through a pretty hard time right now which has put much stress on all of us. I pray constantly and have for years now. I’m only a teenager but I do question so much why God doesn’t help those who need it when he apparently has the power to do so. If the bible says he loves his children and we are his children, then why would he want to see so many of us suffer? I have not lost my faith in God and hope that I never do. But sometimes its hard to have faith when we have no proof as he has never shown himself to us in particular. The statement is often said that everything happens for a reason. But what reason could there possibly be for why such a great amount of horrible things happen in this world. I don’t have many of the answers I wish to have, nor do anybody in this world. I do not know why things are this way, or why God does not do what he is said to have the power to do, but I have not lost hope or faith and hopefully never do. I pray that he will bring a miracle to this world and everyone who needs one. But until that happens I’ll just keep on praying.

God Bless
=]

We must endure all that comes our way to be strengthen by God for Jesus endured all for us, so we must also endure for our Savior. To fight the last battle we must have suffered to be made strong through Christ Jesus. Remember always he who is in me is strongest, let the deceiver lead you the wrong path for if it is easy it cant be. If it narrow and hard than that is the way. For nothing is easy but God and Jesus are well worth the suffering that we must endure. I love you all and God Bless You.

suppose to be let not the deceiver lead you on the wrong path for if it seems easy than its probally wrong but if it is narrow than it is right. Sorry for the mistype.

Hi Aubrie.
I have often wondered about those same questions and for what it is worth I thought I would share some of the conclusions I have come to.
Often there isn’t a “reason” for someone’s suffering; there isn’t a simple ’cause and effect’ relationship to events; “obey God and you get blessed, disobey and you get zapped” (Jesus said as much in Luke 13 v1-5). It is very difficult to read the mind of God from circumstances and we often torture ourselves by trying. Our theological questions come down to this – “do we trust Jesus enough with our doubts?” That was something Martha & Mary had to come to terms with when they faced the seemingly inexplicable delay of Jesus in coming to their aid when their brother died (John 11).
Faith isn’t about us knowing all the whys and wherefores of events we don’t understand – it is about trusting that Jesus is who he said he is – the Lord of life and death – and finding contentment in his promises. The miracle you and I are looking for will be found when Jesus returns and God himself will wipe the tears from our eyes (Rev 21 v4).
God Bless.

I have been in something of a faith crisis lately too, wondering if I am after all destined for Hell – who really knows but God? Like the 1st person, I become so angry at God for not making us perfect. I wish I could never have existed at all – I don’t even want to go to Heaven, I just want the suffering of EXISTING to stop altogether. God is about love, and I have no love in my heart. I have prayed for many years for God to change my heart, to make my suffering stop, and the only guarantee is that it will be better once we finally get to Heaven, but on this earth we are pretty much guaranteed the opposite, and I really don’t want to live. I hate being alive and being depressed and loving absolutely nothing about life at all. It’s a terrible way to exist but I don’t commit suicide b/c I’m so scared I’ll wake up to this earth for eternity.

Dear Gig,
I am a bit of an interloper on this site but I hope you won’t mind if
I try to share some of my thoughts about the experience you describe.

In many ways I find that my faith is affirmed when I look at the state of the world and, indeed, my own heart. The scriptures give us a realistic interpretation of the common human experience. We live in a creation subject to frustration and futility (Romans 7&8) and even though as Christians we are regenerate we are also fallen. This helps us avoid a naive, pollyannish view of the Christian life. It is natural for us to feel this pain. Like you I wish my heart was more loving too!

I’m not sure I have an easy answer for you, but I find it a profound comfort to know that Jesus knows what it is to be truly human – to be tempted and to suffer as we do – Hebrews 2 etc. I have often doubted that having some philosophically abstract answer to life, the universe and everything is actually what we humans need. We need to know that what we experience is not uncommon and that Jesus – as God – could weep over Lazarus and reveal to us something of the heart of God himself.
God Bless.

Gig, if you would like to talk in private, my email is ocb@sharpiron.org. I’ve had some experience with the type of suffering you are going through.

Wow.. so many people have a lot of the same questions and frustrations as I do (and the depression that it sometimes leads to). Well I want to echo the comments of those that pointed to Romans. Check out Romans 7:15:

“I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.”

I often feel like that. I’m trying to do the right thing, but I fall back into bad habits so easily. And not just bad habits, but things I *hate* (like when you say “I’ll never do that again”, then end up doing it again..).

And check out Romans 7:22-24:

“For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death?”

This guy sounds frustrated and feeling helpless! The writers of the Bible can clearly identify with our frustration. But the point is that God gave us power. He gave us the power to change. We can change our own minds, our actions, and our attitude. And just because we fall does not mean we are condemned.

Lots of Christians I know spend so much time beating themselves up over the things they’ve done wrong that they miss out on the point of being Christian. It’s to serve others, to do what Jesus did. Becoming a better person is part of that, but people that focus on their own issues all the time are not helping anyone. Just a thought… Not to ignore your own issues but reaching out and helping others ends up helping to heal ourselves. And the fact is that God does want to heal us (Psalm 147:3):

“He heals the brokenhearted
and binds up their wounds.”

and have us live life to the fullest (and this is life NOW, not in heaven) John 10:10:

“I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.”

That’s why Jesus said he came. To show us the path to a fuller life. So following the example of what he did I believe is following that path. And what he did is to love people, to heal people, express kindness to people, to stand up to the ignorant in society and tell them that their lives are bankrupt, and they are being hypocritical (the religious leaders of his day, which you can see parallels to in religious leaders of today Christian and other).

So I think studying what Jesus did and following his example is key. I don’t think he wanted us to just sit around reading the Bible and not acting on it. It’s too much philosophy it would make us crazy! He even said as much. Faith without action is meaningless. And the point is to test that faith. He doesn’t want our faith to be based on nothing. He wants us to go out into the world and do what he did and see for ourselves if we feel better about life. If we feel like there is hope and worth and meaning.

Ok I hope I haven’t rambled too far…

love and peace to all,

David

Christianity is So not a religion,its a relationship,its more then feeling God’s mercy,its more then you think…dont believe in God?well,soon you’ll see. God abhors homosexuality so therefore IDC who gets offended,homo isn’t right,say whatever but im not gonna stop telling the truth for a falling world. Gay/Lesbian is the most desturbing thing,i wont stop telling the truth gay is :( gross,its not You God will never allow it but He can change it for good;)

Hey Gig,
I know how it feels to be depressed and want to cease to exist. For years I was extremely depressed and went one step further, I wanted to commit suicide but God is good. Life was always meaningless and i always found faults in me and the things I did but God loved me regardless.

I just want to let you know that God can change you. As I like to say we can change our actions but only God can change our heart. And I know that God changed my heart. It’s a long process as somethings I am still battling with but God says that I am a new creation and I believe that I am (after repeating it to myself).

Even though we aspire to be perfect we are not and God gives us grace so that when we mess up we are not immediately damned to hell. Do not lose hope and faith in God because He WILL come through, it took years for me but He did. God has His own reasons for allowing us to go through what we go through and its so great to have a testimony that encourage other people. Its so great to know that God loves me and what I went through makes God more real to me, knowing that the changes that have occurred in my life were not because of me. I am grateful that He gave me many second chances.

Something that my friend told me once- we would be proud if we beat up on ourselves when we sin or to think that we cannot sin. We are not perfect, yet. We- you and I- will fall but thankfully God provides grace which allows us to repent and then forget the past and move forward towards the prize of Jesus Christ.

Things may seem bleak but God’s love never fails. He will come through, don’t allow ANYTHING to make you think that He wont.

My cry was in Psalms 28: 1-2

1 To you I call, O LORD my Rock;
do not turn a deaf ear to me.
For if you remain silent,
I will be like those who have gone down to the pit.

2 Hear my cry for mercy
as I call to you for help,
as I lift up my hands
toward your Most Holy Place.

One more thing, although some people change instantly, other persons, like myself, experience an incremental change.

JN

Hi JN, its Testimonies like yrs that gives some of us hope and belief that indeed God is alive, and I believe that its through such testimonies that our faith grows thus being able to know and experience God in his true self and give our own testimonies in due course. I did have my doubts as well of God’s existance until I experienced him recently and continues to do so. In my case it was a matter of the Devil saying No when God would intervine with a Big YES, I’m currently in the middle of an ugly devorce with no money to pay off debts, the house bond has not been paid in the last 10 months, water and lights have since not been paid since my husband moved out but I tell you, I continued praying and still do and have put my faith forward in the unseen Almighty God and he’s never failed me since i’ve cust all my troubles to him, I put God’s word to the test, see Malachi 3 verse 10 and till this day my husband is still amazed why or how possible all this could be because according to the enemy I should have been kicked out of my home months ago But the Bank did stop calling and their letters have stopped coming, our water and lights should have been cut off months back BUT they’ve also stopped harrasing me no I’m still standing and my conclusion on this??? If still in doubt now there’s God working behind the scene on my behalf, GOD is real, he is not a failure and is not about to start with me. Thank u saints of God, may he continue to bless you all abundantely and experience him working behind the scene on your behalf.

Getting back to the original question. Why did God create the world when he knew we would sin? Or better yet, why did God create man when he knew beforehand some would choose Him and others would not, and end up in hell for their rebellion?

This is a question that I have struggled with for many years. In fact, it has up until lately been a stumbling block in my Christian walk. But that’s what Satan does. He finds weaknesses in our walk and faith to create separation from us and God.

As a diehard Calvinist this question becomes even harder to wrap my mind around.
Because I believe God predestinated some to glory and some to damnation it is even a harder pill to swallow. Why would a loving “all knowing” God create mankind, when from the beginning He knew who would be saved and who would perish? In essence, God knew who would choose Him and who would reject Him.
The answer I always got from my well meaning Arminian friends was man has his own freewill and because man rejects God he goes to hell on his own volition. Horse hockey! Although I don’t agree with freewill, let’s just assume for a moment that it exists for mankind. The question is still on the table. Why would God create us when he knew some would end up in hell forever?
The answer is very simple. There is NO Answer! I don’t mean to sound trite. I was reading Romans 9 last night and even though I’ve read this passage many times it hit me like a brick. The answer is that we should not question God. He did it for his glory. It’s very clear in this passage that God loves and God hates. God chooses some for eternal salvation and others eternal damnation. The question is even asked in verse 19: Why does God find fault in those that resist his will? Because He will have mercy on whom he will have mercy and compassion on whom he will have compassion. Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, “Why did You form me? Has not the Potter have power over the clay? Don’t allow this type of question to impair your walk with God.
Once again the Calvinist doctrine brings peace and understanding to so many scriptures. We are called and chosen. It is not who willeth or runneth but of Him who calleth and has mercy. He raise up Pharaoh to that He might show his power. I don’t understand why he did this and quite frankly I don’t need to.
Earlier I said there is no answer, but what I really mean is that there is no answer our human minds can grasp. God in his glory decided this is His plan for mankind before he created us. We cannot question God or his design for mankind. If we approach this from our limited viewpoint it can get us into trouble.
Re-read Romans 9 and ask God to give you peace and concerning this matter.
Romans 9: 11-24
11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
12It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Is it possible that God would create man and choose not to foresee or predestine whether man would choose Him or not? Check out Gen 22:11 and Gen 18:20-21. God may have created man and gven him freewill, and also chose to not look into the future.

No, I’m afraid it’s not possible Brian.
1) God can’t not (sorry for double negative) look into the future. He is beyond time, so our future is already present to him. There is no tense in God, and no unfulfilled potential. He is already relating to my future self, so he can’t not know the future.
2) Why would God give us a form of free-will that he himself doesn’t have? God has the freedom to act according to his own character, as we have. He does not, and we do not, have the ‘freedom’ to act against our own characters. That is why as fallen sinners, we must experience the prior, gracious work of God calling and regenerating us, before we can come to faith.

I have alot of questions myself and if I knew all of the answers then I would be God. I am not God. As far as unanswered prayers goes, here is my spin on it. The world is far too complex to understand sometimes but *everything* happens for a reason. I remember the pain I went through when I finally let go of my sons father. I asked God, why would he do this to me. Why would he let me feel that pain. I was cheated on, lied to the entire time I mean the whole relationship was a lie and I was in love with a stranger then left a single mother. He was who I had given my virginity to. That’s who I saved myself for. I was so angry. I prayed God would tell me it wasn’t real and he would either help me get over it or give him back to me. Now, 5 years later, I am thanking God he didn’t answer those prayers. I am really thanking God for that. I have my son but if he answered my prayers I wouldn’t have my daughter, I wouldn’t have my fiance, God knows who, what or where I would be right now had he answered those prayers. All things have a reason and purpose. We all tie into eachother’s lives in a way that makes it more difficult for me to say God doesn’t exist than it does to say he does. Make sense? How are we even here. I have to slow down sometimes because if I think too deeply into it my brain feels like it’s frying, the world is just THAT complex. We will never have all the answers. Have you ever been in a situation where you said to yourself, “What if I took that exit, I might have been in that accident” have you ever thought, “If I wasn’t late for work this morning, could I have possibly died?” I mean this is how my mind functions, I would be scared to live if I knew all of the answers. When you find yourself in doubt (and we ALL at some point doubt our faith) then just look at the world around you. HOW. How could any of this be without a supernatural being behind it? I once heard an expression. If you smashed a clock into a thousand pieces, placed it in a bag and began shaking it, do you think you would ever get that clock back in working order, as if it were new again? That’s what I think about the universe. There’s just no way without him. To us, we have to “physically” see things to believe them because that’s what we are, physical beings. Our brains sometimes don’t understand that this world shows us God everyday. When I look at a pretty sunset, the clouds, trees, animals, childbirth, good memories, just all of the beauty in the world, to me it’s like you couldn’t get any closer to God than if you were physically walking with him. That’s just my spin.

To the author of this site, this is a wonderful site and you write SO well. I wish I had the tact and grace you do, your words really flow so well.

God – Almighty – Created earth and people knowing we would sin -> Knowing he had to send Jesus to save us -> Knowing people would need to find Jesus to go to heaven.. knowing who would choose him and be saved…. THUS a loving caring person living in China that never heard of Jesus would go to Hell? PLEASE tell me this makes sense…. NO! Why send Jesus then??? Silly isn’t it. Also why allow all the suffering and war??? God would then be GOD=SATAN…leaving us running around trying to please him so that He might choose us to be a lucky lotto winner for eternity. I do not believe in such a god.

God -> Not Almighty – Created people wishing them to live in harmony and peace -> But people changed and it made God sad…He had to do something to help us and send Jesus as an example of how to live in LOVE and PEACE… HE GAVE US FREE WILL, thus NOT knowing what we would do… MAKE SENSE… Jesus is not the way to salvation but the example for happiness on earth and peace. IMPORTANT: IT IS NOT IMPORTANT THAT JESUS DIED FOR US…IT IS IMPORTANT THAT HE LIVED FOR US…!!! It is not difficult to die for someone, especially if you love them…I would choose to die in my son’s place any day. I am sorry to say, but the Bible got it wrong in the new testament. God sent the Holy Spirit to help us… to LIVE!!! LOVE will be the all most important thing and we as people would then instead of condemning others try to help and make a difference…JESUS as example.. A person in Tibet, Angola or Antarctica may yet be saved as God wants all to be saved and be with Him. We choose not to live in love…divorce, killing others, Wars, abortion etc… and we move away from God’s love.

Being saved does not mean finding Jesus…it means living in love with one another like Jesus did. We are all born with the capacity to love and we choose to do so or not.

I can be wrong but at least I did not just believe in a story responsible for Wars, human right violations and the message of… tough luck if you are not on the BOAT to heaven, its not your fault.

Tell me what you think as this is an interesting topic for me.

God is still a mystery. I choose to hear the words LOVE is the most important of all…

Does God giving us freewill mean that He does not know what we would do? You wrote this above..it may or may not be true..i sure hope that He didnt know what man would do, cuz there arent going to be many people on the “boat” as you say..

Heres what I think: He created the world because it was the only way to have a real relationship with him, to have true love. If we were all made to love him than its not real, its “programmed” into us. The free will that man recieved when he ate from the tree of knowledge allowed sin to enter the world but at the same time it allowed the oppertunity for everyone to have a real and loving relationship with their creator.

Hanno,

I think you have a strange perception of who God and Jesus are. Suffering and war is because of what transpired in the Garden with Adam & Eve. Because of their rebellion and eating of the forbidden fruit… sin was introduced into the world. Not soon after… Cain killed his brother Abel. It’s been on a downward spiral ever since. We are living in a sinful world with a sinful nature. Because of this sin we in no way can ever “choose” God. Our sinful nature will reject God every time. We are totally separated from Him. It’s only though his grace and love that is revealed to us that we would call upon Him. We don’t “find” Him. He finds us!

You said the Bible “got it wrong” in the New Testament. God is the author of the both Old and New Testament. Are you saying that a perfect God got it wrong? How can you place your faith in Him if you think He is infallible?

I think you have a problem with God’s judgment. You are all about the Love and that’s fine. But He is also a God of judgment and He will have mercy upon those He wishes to have mercy on. This is scriptural. Free will is blasphemy and to believe in such nonsense is very much uninformed. Read Ephesians 1, Romans 9:11-23, John 6:39-44, Romans 8:29-30

This isn’t about God choosing some to hell and others to eternity in heaven. God in his wisdom simply allows those He did not predestined to remain in their sinful nature. He passes them over to their own lusts. We are all worthy of damnation but through his grace he saved some. I don’t understand why…but this is what the Bible teaches. In most Christian circles today this is not taught because “it doesn’t sound fair” so this concept is rejected and rewritten to be more appealing. We don’t know more than God and we can’t let our limited wisdom rewrite what the Bible teaches.

now i see it! I was predestined to be a failure!!!

Kenton, you have put it in perspective.

This afternoon I heard the lyrics in Toby Mac’s song, “I was Made to Love You”. My interpretation of this song’s message gives me such an empty, hopeless feeling. Why did God go ahead with his “Creation Project” when he knew how much suffering would be endured all for the sake of being glorified, worshipped, adored? And why on earth would he create plain old me?

The Toby Mac song, the blogs, my preacher’s sermons, the Bible have the same answer: I was made to love God, to adore Him . . . .

What a let-down. All these years I’ve wasted by desperately longing and endlessly working towards having people love ME and adore ME for some admirable achievement.

I better give my head a shake, pop this self-absorbed bubble I’m living in, submit to the fact that I am a “wretch” (Amazing Grace song) and once-and-for-all realize I can do nothing and that I am nothing without loving God first.

My little boy asks me, “Mommy, do you love God more than me?”
I respond, “No. I have no idea how to love God. It would be so awesome to be fond of God, to long and ache for him like I do when daddy is away. If I enjoyed God more than I enjoy chocolate covered strawberries, I would be face down, on the floor really, really worshipping him, praying to him, singing and dancing and sobbing for him. His bible would be my only book and I’d have bibles in every room, car, office cuz I would never be able to get enough of him. If I was so in-love with God, I would have no problem talking about him to EVERYONE! I wonder what it feels like to really, really love God like some people say they love him?”

Hey, maybe I should ask God to give me that kind of love for him. Oh no! Be careful what you pray/wish for! It seems God reveals himself to people who are suffering deeply. Would I finally know how to love God if my son went missing, my husband died?

Christians have responded to my questions in ways that conjure up more doubt:

“Have faith that what God says in the bible is true.”

But the bible was written, rewritten, translated by humans. There is a clause in the bible that says the words are all “God-breathed”. Who wrote that? Oh, right, it was a man. Maybe he lied, wanting people to believe his story, his philosophy, political viewpoint, whether true or not?

My head hurts, my heart aches when these doubts consume me.

Someone says, “Even if creation and God and Jesus are just a story, living the way Jesus did is noble and it would probably keep you out of a lot of trouble if you followed the advice in Proverbs!”

Maybe God created us, maybe we created him. If it’s all just a story, then when my mom and dad die, I won’t try to fool myself into believing that I’ll see them again. And if God is not a story, my relationship with my mom & dad will not be the same. Where’s the hope in that?

Hi guys, i have been reading your comments with great interest and i admire you for your honesty.if i may throw something into the mix-
God is triune , father, son and holy spirit. they exist throughout eternity as a perfect, loving family as one. Remember, as christians we worship the one God existing as three separate persons and the thing that makes them one is their incredible love for each other. they are in perfect harmony and perfect agreement.The words used in the old testament that the muslims and various other religions use against us is “THE LORD YOUR GOD IS ONE”.The word “one” doesnt mean one in the mathematical singularity , the hebrew word for “one” is the same word used when the lord said that a man shall leave his mother and father and join with his wife to become “one” flesh.He is indicating a unity of more than one, but functioning as one- a perfect family.They are not three gods, three gods would be three individuals, they are three persons, the difference between an individual and a person is- an individual is independant and needs no one, a person is personal and relational. a person has to exist in relation to another- therefore what does it mean that we are made in the image of God? it means we were made to be in relationship, just as the father, son, and spirit are, and we are therefore also meant to be in a relationship with our creator.father, son are relational terms in the make up of God, they are equal with the spirit but the father cannot exist without the son and the spirit cannot exist without the father and son. when i say relational, i mean, you cant be a father without a son, and you cant be a son without a father.Iwould not be here without the prior relationship between my mother and father.The reason im explaining this is, the bible collapses if you dont read it with the triune God in mind, once you get around that,things become clearer.
Lets see how they work together- the father wills it, the son executes it empowered by the spirit. you see this happening from genesis through to revelation.in the book of John you see “in the beginning there was the word,and the word was with God and the word was God.” the bible is clear that Jesus is the word and the universe was created by Gods word.In genesis the spirit is hovering over the formless earth in order to anoint the word (Jesus)to create.In john we see the spirit in a form of a dove hovering over the waters of the jordan in order to annoint Jesus to go out and begin his ministry, and the father speaks from heaven.

So,we have the triune God, and his very being is love.Love has to be shared. there has to be something to love otherwise there cannot be love. The father, son, and spirit share this incredible , perfect love which explodes out into creation.God knew creation would fall into sin, however the plan of salvation was already in place.

The son was so willing to deal with the trinitarian fury that he willingly separated from his father and entered our dimension as one of us in order to pay the fine we deserved. He had to be God to pay the penalty, and he had to be human in order to die.We actually were not involved, the plan of salvation that was introduced and executed by God, packaged and given to us as a gift. If Jesus was living in such a perfect, loving environment with his father, why did he do this? what was missing in heaven that made him lower himself and endure such suffering, our blessed hope is to go and be with him in heaven, what was his blessed hope that he actually took the totally astounding step that he did.he didnt just die, he suffered immeasurably more than any human could handle, he took the past, present and future sins into his body and cried out exactly what we cry out “why” -he bargained with his father in gethsemany as the blood ran out of his pores to please let this cup pass from him, he took up his cross and with immeasurable resolve , went on to be lynched, hung, drawn and quartered, as isaiah put it- you couldnt recognise if he was human. Yet he was innocent.
What was missing in heaven that made him go through all that? it was you, you were missing, he could have left you as a child of satan, but he didnt, he loves you that much.
The questions you ask are good and relevant, and there are some fantastic answers but dont forget,Jesus knows why, hes been there done that, put your faith and trust in him, he will give you the answers in time.I suggest you look at a website http://www.gotquestions.org its fantastic and bible based. it will help you a lot.

God bless you all

Hmmmm, well this is all very interesting. I was a Christian but at some point this fact removed me from fellowship.
There are now millions of people who are burning, in agony, faces creased in incessant pain, torment beyond imagination, limbs torn, emotions stretched like rubber that can never break and in a world of pain for ETERNITY.
For them my heart grieves so strongly that it brings tears to my eyes……But God knew this would happen. I find it very difficult to separate the God that we are supposed to follow by “faith” and one that would ‘create’ knowing that there would be so much carnage for so few survivors.

I used to believe in God and the bible, but the same questions came up that some of you have been talking about.
Namely, if God is omnisceint ( all knowing), Omnipotent ( all powerful ) and Omnipresent ( everywhwere at the same time) Why would he conduct this grand experiment? He would already know that we would all have a sinful nature and would not be acceptable to him, as he can tolerate no sinfulness to be in his presense, He would already know that he would be required to send billons of his childen to eternal damnation and he would already know that he woul need a remedy to this problem – Jesus, So why in the hell would he go ahead with this plan when he is supposed to be all about love? And why would the creator of the universe need or desire the praise of his creations. God sounds very insecure to me.
And whats all the nonsense about he did it for his Glory, he’s GOD, why would he need to be glorified? Does God have really low self esteem and he needs us to praise and worship him to feel better about himself? Common sense will tell you that none of this makes any sense.

The only answers I ever hear are that we can’t know God’s mind or his ways are above our ways, sounds like a cop out to me.

Thanks for listening

ok. why would god let us come to earth to sin, break all of his rules..? and if he loves us why would he let us go to helll?….

why would god let people go to hell if he really loved us??

Dave – how do you compare that ultimate good would be for God to never have created versus a life that faces pain and suffering? We cannot imagine if life would have been better, since there is quite literally nothing to compare.
-on one hand there’s pain and suffering with the ability to experience divine goodness
-and then there’s nothing.
who are we to say that one is better than the other, when we cannot experience the other.
How would I, if I did not exist, profit by not existing? we don’t have to figure out if it was better to not exist… we do exist, so we are left to figure out – If God is good and there’s evil in the world, how does this work? Which the solution could very well be free will. God cannot both give man free will and the inability to choose things that will cause them harm or pain.

for us to say that God created us for His glory may not be the best way to explain why God created the world. It may have been for our benefit to experience His glory. Since His glory wouldn’t cease if we never existed. If He’s glorious then He’s glorious and people being present or not doesn’t change that.

and may i also add, that we would have experienced the fullness of God’s greatness had we not sinned. to say otherwise is to say that God wanted us to sin. would nullify everything that He has said about Himself.

it is said that the bible was written only in latin and greek before i was translated into thousand different languages today. i’d like to know the origin of the text that’s written on the bible.

Ngomso, you’re half right. The bible was originally written in three languages – most of the Old Testament in Hebrew, the rest of the Old Testament in Aramaic, and the New Testament in Greek.

The text that you’ll find in a modern English version has been translated directly from these original languages, using the ancient documents as primary evidence. You can trust what you read there.

why does he create the world and finally man?

In what way does GOD’s touch contribute to the invincibility of the human spirit?

ok, first the very idea of an omnipotent (Having unlimited power) and omniscience being (having infinate knowledge) in itself cannot actually work! eg if god is all powerfull then he can create a stone so heavy that even he cannot lift it, but if he did create that stone and failed to lift it he cant then be called all powerfull anymore. our idea of god is completly wrong and not thought out very well, written by primitive minds thousands of years ago.
the bible says an eye for an eye, but what crime could a man commit that would justify being burned for ever in excrutiating pain and eternal suffering.
many christian folks talk of freewill but did we have a choice whether to be born or not because if we did, where were we before birth, heaven or hell. if we were in heaven we would have to be re-condemed as a sinner to come back here as we are all born sinners acording the book. or did we come from hell but if we did then eternal damnation is a load of crap if you can escape eternal hell then the book lied to us just so we would all become christians.
so to sum up,we are forced to be born then forced to be sinners from birth through no fault of our own (adam and eve), then we are forced to choose between two powers that have been at war with one another for thousands of years before we were born, what exactly is the freewill.
also we are told that god answers prayers then on the other hand we are told god doesnt intervene in mens affairs, the two do not go together.
i do actually believe in a devine conciousness but not the type in the bible and believe me i have read the book twice, i think the idea of the god in the bible may be an insult to the real creator of this universe! he seems to have the personallity of a paranoid, egotistical, self serving, self glorifying, schizophrenic, vengfull, revengefull, jealous,wrathful, judgemental human being which tells me this is mans creation. the bible is a book of advise on some morallity but DO NOT LIVE LIFE BY IT or you will be a confused and brainwashed person scared to live and spend your life in fear of hell but remember the bible says the dead are dead and know nothing so how then all of a sudden are we living an eternal life in hell. Think about it.

To “the revolutionist”,

I once had a grade school teacher throw out the old “could God create a stone so big he couldn’t lift it?” scenario. At the time I thought it was genius. But then I matured and realized how ignorant it was. I basically grew up.
I suppose the next thing you are going to ask is “what came first, the chicken or the egg?”
The problem with these humanistic brain teasers is that they come from humans. We are limited in scope and understanding. That’s why most, if not all, Biblical arguments really just come down to a simple concept called “faith”. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17
You read the Bible twice? Wow…that much huh? Many that read the Bible do not grasp or understand the Bible because they were not “given ears” to understand.
I pray that you get down on your knees and ask for understanding from the one true God.
You say that Hell in the Bible is a fear tactic. You are correct and we should all be afraid of His wrath. Fear is the beginning of knowledge.
You are correct in saying there is no such thing as freewill. We lost that right in the Garden with the choices made by Adam and Eve. However, God through his grace continues to choose many from eternal damnation. This is called election and the Word is very clear on this subject. It is not what we do or strive for; but what God in His mercy permits.

John 6:44
No one can come to Me, unless the Father who sent Me draws him.

Romans 8:29-30
For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the first-born among many brethren; and whom He predestined, these He also called; and whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

Ephesians 1:4-5,11
Just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will . . . also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will.

2 Thessalonians 2:13
God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation.

Second Timothy 1:9
God “has saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity.

We are “dead” in our trespasses before God. Only he can resurrect us to eternal life. A simple analogy for salvation would be that we are drowning in the ocean and God is standing on the shore throwing us a life ring and all we need to do is grab a hold of it to save ourselves. This is utter nonsense.

A better analogy would be that we are floating in the ocean, dead; and God dives into the water, pulls us to shore and resuscitates us back to life.

This is really the true Gospel.

My husband and I lost our Son Bob June 1, 2008, He was also Brother and Uncle a Father. I just found your site and I see how much everyone blames God for all their pain. I do not see how grateful they are for the blessings that God has given them in this lifetime. I too have experienced many sad times in life and also have enjoyed many blessings. Through it all, God gave us the strength to take care of our Son’s final days. Please take the time to look around and see the God given blessings you have before your very eyes. Love to you all.

to jim
no ill- respect this is not a test of clever words, i am just pointing out a few contradictions and that was only a couple. you say many do not understand the bible as they were not given ears to hear! but wasnt this book written for all of us to understand the word of god so now only a chosen few can understand the bible.
from my understanding no one can understand the book correctly as each person will derive his or her own meaning from whatever is written in it, eg hitler using it to justify killing jews, it was also used to justify black slavery, christian crusades and witch burnings amongst other gruesome things, i was just pointing out that the god in the bible has some very diverse and contradictory statements and that people should be aware they should not take this book to literally.
the bible has been translated from hebrew,greek and aramaic and then re translated time and time again so by now gods word has been hidden deep within the book surrounded by stories of heaven and hell and whats going to happen if we dissobey.
im not saying go out and be a bad person just do good because your heart is good and you want to, not because you have been blackmailed by stories of hell in the bible as a just god would not send a man to hell as hell wasnt mentioned in the original bible it was created by man, the original word used for hell was sheol , or hades or as jesus himself called it “gehenna”, but all these places refered to a plot of land outside jerusalem where they used to burn bodies and throw out waste but it was man who decied to twist things and say god has made a place for sinners so behave yourself.blind faith is good because it can have people believing in what they are told to believe in without questioning it,but wait doesnt the bible also say ask and ye shall recieve an answer.until we sift out the pie in the sky nonesense from the sense we cannot and will not understand the bible.

Why I’m an Atheist:

This topic is one large reason. It makes absolutely no sense for God to create FLAWED people knowing he would be sending some of them to hell. Any “explanation” of this assumes that one already believes in God to make any sense at all (faith, God-centered thinking, etc…)

There are three reasons to believe in God:

-You are too scared not to. Fear mongering at it’s best.
-You have been indoctrinated growing up being told whatever religion you believe is 100% truth and it’s everyone else that’s crazy.
-Your ego can not deal with the reality of a universe not controlled by a greater being. (This includes all the people who “found” God after some traumatic series of events)

So we have fear, rumor, and ego. None of which are enough to continue to convince me that God exists. I was victim to the fear and indoctrination reasons that I listed for the first 20 years of my life. I went to church every Sunday. I prayed every day. I did not become an Atheist to feel free to do bad things… It took me about 2 years to get over the fear of even questioning the beliefs enough to think about the religion objectively. And when I did, that’s when it all came crashing down.

Things that have changed for the better since becoming an Atheist:

-I no longer discriminate against gays in accordance with Leviticus 18:22.

-I no longer have to disregard science and logic, or suspend disbelief in reality.

-I no longer feed self-hate and depression by constantly worrying that I am backsliding or sinning simply due to normal human thoughts. No more “omg am I reaaalllly saved?”.

I am more productive and far more happy since I have become an Atheist, so to all the “Christianity is good for you” types, trust me, it is not always the case. For me, atheism is a much calmer, sensible, realistic, and less frantic way to live.

So once again, can someone explain to me, the atheist, why should I have faith that God exists? Because if someone could actually give some logical proof that hell exists… I’d be back in church tomorrow.

Hi Dave
Here is the Bible answer. At http://www.martynshenstone.com read the free book ‘Did God Know.’

Dave,

You say; “So once again, can someone explain to me, the atheist, why should I have faith that God exists? Because if someone could actually give some logical proof that hell exists… I’d be back in church tomorrow.”

Here is my response to why you should have faith that God exists
In response to the reasons you say you become an Atheist. As others are doing, I do not need to quote scripture to answer your question.

First of all, in response to logical proof that hell exists….. I believe that there is a hell and hell is seperation from God. Whether that is logical or not, you decide. You would not be questioning if God exists or need proof of hell if you didn’t already believe in God. The reason you are wanting proof that there is a hell is because you are AFRAID that since you choose NOT to believe in God and there really is a God then when you die you will go to hell because of your atheism. I am assuming since you were in church and prayed daily for 20 yrs. then you are saved. That being said……. YOU ARE SAVED. You can say you don’t believe in God all you want, but you already received his gift of salvation.

What kind of church taught you to discriminate against gays?????? No one is perfect. It is wrong to judge someone like that. Whatever church taught you to judge and discriminate does NOT know God. I am so sorry that you were taught by a so called church such hatred.

In response to what you say: “I no longer feed self-hate and depression by constantly worrying that I am backsliding or sinning simply due to normal human thoughts. No more “omg am I reaaalllly saved?”………….. Why did you hate yourself for worrying about sinning or having normal human thoughts? What church taught you that you have to be PERFECT. You cannot be perfect. You are human. I sin all the time, yet I don’t hate myself or worry about “backsliding”. I am and always will be a sinner as long as I live. When you believed in God, what was your belief on why Jesus died? Jesus was beaten, broken, humilitated, hung in shame, yet the greatest AGONY was when he felt that God had abandoned him and he said “My God, why hast thou forsaken me?”. He was in HELL…… he felt complete seperation from God. There is a HEll !!!!

I have never doubted the existance of God, however like you, I have had many questions. First, in response to your 3 reasons people believe in God……
#1 I am NOT scared to NOT believe in God. I believe in Him because I know that it is IMPOSSIBLE that there is NOT a creator. Explain to me where we came from??? A microorganism (evolution) IF SO, then where did that microorganism come from????? I do NOT “disregard’ science. Science is actually what reveals to me that there has to be a creator. So I choose to believe that creator is God. You choose not to believe that.
#2 I grew up in church, but I was never “indoctrinated” to believe any “religion”. I believe what it is my heart. “Reading” the bible didn’t reveal the truth. The truth is in my heart. I don’t need a preacher, or “bible thumpers” to show me or “brainwash” me into believing in something that is already evident in my heart.
#3 You say; “Your ego can not deal with the reality of a universe not controlled by a greater being. (This includes all the people who “found” God after some traumatic series of events)”…………..Like you, I grew up in church, yet NONE of that forced me to believe in God. A person could talk until they are blue in the face to try to convince someone that there is a God. When all is said and done, It is up to that individual to search for the the truth. .I have searched and questioned all explainations of how there is a universe, IT is not my EGO that causes me to believe in God. It is my humility.

Please ponder my words and know that you are saved. You will not go to hell when you die despite your so called unbelief. When you received His gift of salvation all your sins past, present and future are forgotten, erased, covered by Jesus’ blood.

I hope you find your way back to Him. I hope you find your way out feeling complete seperation from Him (HELL).

Love…. Holly

this is a very good sight. the questions are real and the people that answer those questions are patient kind, and of god send. thank you and god bless you all.

When I think of how much I love my three daughters, the thought of presenting them with the life options of obeying me or they must go to a place where they will suffer unbearable anguish forever seems absolutely cruel beyond words. I try to make sense of the Bible but I don’t think I will ever understand

THE WOMEN IN YOUR FAMILY ARE YOUR “HOLY PEOPLE”!!! THEY ARE YOUR INTERFACE WITH THE GODS!!!
Their role throughout history is to communicate the god’s wisdom so the entire family can progress when reincarnated. Effectively acomplishing this task may buy them a quality opportunity to ascend in their next life.

Your job as a future mother is to learn the god’s ways and to help your child understand despite the negative reinforcement and conditioning of today’s society. Without consciousous parents the child will have no hope, and may even exaserbate their disfavor by becoming corrupted in today’s environment.
Your ultimate goal is to fix your relationship wiith the gods and move on. You don’t want to be comfortable here, and the changes in Western society in the last 100 years has achieved just that.
1000 years with Jesus is the consolation prize. Don’t be deceived into thinking that is the goal.

Much like the other prophets Mohhamed (polygamy/superiority over women/misogyny) and Jesus (forgiveness/savior), the gods use me for temptation as well. In today’s modern society they feel people are most weak for popular culture/sensationalism, and the clues date back to WorldWarII and Unit731:TSUSHOGO, the Chinese Holocaust. They used this Situation to bury Japanese atrocities. And since the gods never committed despite tens of billions in mass media, product development and natural disasters/tragedy they will employ the freedom they positioned into the Situation and CHEAT me out of everything.
It has been discussed that, similar to the Matrix concept, the gods will offer a REAL “Second Coming of Christ”, while the “fake” Second Coming will come at the end and follow New Testiment scripture and their xtian positioning. I may be that real Second Coming.
What I teach is the god’s true way. It is what is expected of people, and only those who follow this truth will be eligible to ascend into heaven as children in a future life. They offered this event because the masses have just enough time to work on and fix their relationship with the gods and ascend, to move and grow past Planet Earth, before the obligatory xtian “consolation prize” of “1000 years with Jesus on Earth” begins.

The Prince of Darkness, battling the gods over the souls of the Damned.
It is the gods who have created this environment and led people into Damnation with temptation. The god’s positioning proves they work to prevent people’s understanding.
How often is xtian dogma wrong? Expect it is about the Lucifer issue as well.
The fallen god, fighting for justice for the disfavored, banished to Earth as the fallen angel?
I believe much as the Noah’s Flood event, the end of the world will be initiated by revelry among the people. It will be positioned to be sanctioned by the gods and led for “1000 years with Jesus on Earth”.
In light of modern developments this can entail many pleasures:::Medicine “cures” aging, the “manufacture” of incredible beauty via cloning as sex slaves, free (synthetic) cocaine, etc.
Somewhere during the 1000 years the party will start to “die off”, literally. Only those who maintain chaste, pure lifestyles, resisting these temptations, will survive the 1000 years. Condemned to experience another epoch of history for their ignorant pursuit of xtianity, they will be the candidates used to (re)colonize (the next) Planet Earth, condemned to relive the misery experienced by the peasantry throughout the course of history due to their failure to ascend into heaven before the Apocalypse.
Never forget:::It is not a house of Jesus.
If this concept of Lucifer is true another role of this individual may be to initiate disfavor and temptation among this new colonist poulation, the proverbial “apple” of this Garden of Eden. A crucial figure in the history of any planet, he begins the process of deterioration and decay that leads civilizations to where Planet Earth remains today.

Consistant with “reverse positioning” understand the REAL Second Coming would equate with The Matrix’s Anti-Christ, the fake battle of good and evil which will come at the end.
Understanding how they use the political environment to redefine people’s value system, realize anyone who speaks of the old world and its ways will envoke hatred. So when/if the Anti-Christ comes along speaking of reverting back to what liberalism would consider regressive and unfair, it may be the only hope to salvage the god’s favor and buy more time rather than begin the 1000 year clock. The fake Second Coming will feed into this political enviornment.
Also consistant with “reverse positioning” recognize the gods will offer a REAL Anti-Christ, also known as The Beast. I have addressed these issues in years past::::
The gods will offer clues throughout every dynamic of life. Geographical features on the world map is yet another.
The Beast is not a person, as the xtian Bible would suggest. It is a place:::The San Francisco Bay Area. And it refers to the socio-political poison the region exuded in the latter 20th century which promoted indecent behavior among the people and caused rapid deterioration of their favor among the gods. This decay spread to other states and countries, fulfilling the region’s role as The Beast of the Apocalypse.
Another feature which the Gods offer as a clue is very foreboading. Mt. Zion is a mountain to the north of the eye of The Beast Diablo and one which has a working quarry at its base. Consistant with the decay we experience in society, Mt. Zion is being eaten away, slowly stripped of its resources, until one day paradise will be gone forever.

Just a thought:

The Bible says that –
1.) God is comprised of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
2.) All three of the Holy Trinity – Father, Son, Spirit, are all one and the same.
3.) God never changes, he is always consistent. (Because God the Father is part of the Trinity including the Son and Spirit, and they are one and the same, this means that Jesus, the Son, never changes. Correct?)

Knowing these things, we can see that the Bible contradicts itself. The Old Testament commands eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth, meaning that whatever wrong you commit, you will have that same wrong committed to you. That was one of God’s rules for them. Then, so many years later, Jesus comes along and tells his followers to “forgive your enemies seventy times seven.”

Where and why does God (who is also Jesus and the Holy Spirit, which never change, because they are all one) have such a dramatic mood swing between the Old and New Testaments? Why does God differ so much from Jesus, his Son, who never changes, just as God never changes (or so the Trinity states)?

No one can answer this. It is a major contradiction in the Bible. There are many other ways that the Bible doesn’t wrap around, but this is by far the most prominent for me. If you can answer this somehow, it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time.

While I’m worked up, I should ask another question regarding God.

The Bible says that God loves us incredibly deeply – like nothing we can comprehend. Why, then, did he make us PROGRAMMED to sin and have these doubts about why things exist, why we are here, why does God not show Himself, why do we.. why does He.. why should He, why, why, why, why, why.

For some reason, we think this way. If we were made by God, who made us say “why”, isn’t it just a tad bit cruel to make us like this and keep us wondering? Why did He show Himself to His disciples way back when, and not now? Why can’t I see Him working in this world of wrong, hypocrisy, injustice, and sin? If He hates all of these things, and He can’t stand to be around them, why doesn’t he just get rid of sin, like He does in Heaven? So many unanswered questions…

If the scriptures don’t give us a clear cut answer to a question, then its obvious we are asking the wrong question and its of no importance.

There is more than enough in there to clarify the way we are to live in this world. Most of us are failing miserably. So why bother asking questions if we can’t follow God at all?

The only way to God is through his word as it is undistorted. This means the King James Version (original). Take a look at Luke 11 and notice the wording of the prayer. Compare that to every other edition you will find since that time. They removed some notable wordings. Evil has infested this world like cancer. And it has disguised itself as Christ. You will not be saved at all unless you “wise up” and stop asking so many questions. The answers are in front of you.

Its like a wise man and his unattentive pupil. He gives him all the answers, yet the pupil hears nothing. This is mostly why so many can’t find the answers because they arent finding what they are already looking for. The world is spoiling us on liberty and freedom and we are seeking self satisfaction. You approach the Bible this way, you will NOT find answers. Only sacrificing your worldly life for the sake of God and the benefit of your family will you then have the answers. You can’t play the part of a sinner and know God. Hence the prophecy of the great “falling away” of all churches and those who follow.

Dear Friends,
There is one truth we all need to focus on. The original sin is not to acknowledge God as God and trying to take the place of God. This was the first sin and it is foolishness. Satan thought he is very clever and he has understood everything and all the mysteries and thought of taking the place of God and exercise authority as God but God foiled his plan and banished him from his most holy presence. So let us not do the same mistake. Question we need to ask ourselves now is, God loves us, do we love him back or not, what is our response. Where you will be once you finish this life on earth will be decided on how well you will respond and whether your response is to love God or love yourself and your ideas and your intelligence which is again given by God. When we receive freely even without asking all the intelligence and other things that we have or who we are, shouldnt we be thankful to God and we dont have any right to ask God what He is doing. He is doing it perfectly well. I believe so, we can make up theories as per our understanding goes to the extent it can go by breaking our heads. You are alive and asking these questions is the biggest proof that God is good. God has asked us to be selfless so it means that He is selfless, unless He is selfless, He cannot judge anyone for being selfish, So be sure that God is selfless and It was shown in Lord Jesus Christ His Son about God’s character, So dont be a fool but trust in the LORD with all your heart and donot lean on your own understanding. He is your only friend whom you can trust, because you cannot trust yourself as it is corrupted as well. So only incorruptible person is God who is all wise, all knowing and all powerful and ever present beyond time and space and unchanging and everlasting, so He knows what to do when and how to do it. So cooperate with Him and take joy that He is in control and He will do no injustice to anyone. If something happens, it has a reason in the sight of God. So be at peace and Trust in God our Father, Lord Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit of God. Any questions, please let me know. I am interested to discuss.

With love of Christ,
Manas.

I think it’s about faith. If we had all the answers now, it would be easy to believe in God, wouldn’t it? But then we wouldn’t need faith. Some things are hard for us to understand as humans but I believe somehow it all makes perfect sense and we will know everything one day. But God wants us to have faith in Him now. “When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, and I made plans like a child. When I became a man, I stopped those childish ways. It is the same with us. Now we see God as if we are looking at a reflection in a mirror. But then, in the future, we will see him right before our eyes. Now I know only in a part, but at that time I will know fully, as God has known me. So these three things continue: faith, hope, and love. And the greatest of these is love.” 1 Corinthians 13: 11-13. However, God show us that He is really in many ways– through friends and family, in prayer, in nature, and by giving to others. The Bible only teaches us good things and if you follow the teaches in it, it will only make your life easier and more joyful. Let love be your guide. Also, if you have a question that you really need an answer to and you can’t seem to get past it in order to grow spiritually, ask God to help you with it. God loves to hear from us and He loves to help us with all our struggles in life, even the really small decisions. God is love. He is not looking down on us angrily and trying to judge our every mistake. He wants to guide us in our life and help us grow in our faith. “You should owe nothing to anyone, except that you will always owe love to each other. The person who loves others has done all that the law commands. The law says, “You must not commit adultery, you must not murder anyone, you must not steal, you must not want what belongs to someone else. All these commands and all other commands are really one rule: ‘Love your neighbor the same as you love yourself.’ Love doesn’t hurt others. So loving is the same as obeying all the law.” Roman 13:8-10. I too, don’t understand everything in the Bible and sometimes I get confused but I pray and ask God to help me understand as best I can and guide me in the right direction. Remember when we are tempted by Satan, he always looks where we are the weakest in our faith. That’s why it’s important to recognize where you are vulnerable so that you will not be ambushed by temptation. If you are watching for it and praying for the strength to resist when it comes, you will be well prepared to say no. “The temptations in your life are no different from what others experience. And God is faithful. He will not allow the temptation to be more than you can stand. When you are tempted, He will show you a way out so that you can endure.” 1 Corinthians 10:3 Satan always tries to crush our faith and make us follow this world instead. Well, I hope this helped. All I know is that when I am far from God, I feel empty inside and no matter how much I try to fill it with worldy things, it stays empty but when I pray and read the Bible, it gives me hope. I still have struggles and I still get sad but it makes it somehow easier. Just remember, God is love and He loves us more than we can understand. If you look at Him this way and not as Satan wants you to believe about Him then it will make it easier to have faith. God loves all people — whites, blacks, hispanic, thiefs, liers, doctors, teachers, gays— it’s our sin that He hates. So, lets go out and love each other, including ourselves, and stop judging each other and living in fear. Peace be with us all <3 :)

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the art of learning deep truths about God and man in the company of friends, whilst drinking tea and eating cake.

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